This is Carty Finbeiner. He is the Mayor of Toledo. I don’t know too much about him. I do know, he did park in handicap parking, even though he didn’t have a permit to do so. Yet that isn’t why I am writing about him. I’m not going to bash him or his integrity. I am going to call to attention a decision he made recently, not allowing Marines to train in the city of Toledo. They have been doing this for years and the police knew about it for sometime. Why would this bother me? Let me first tell you my background. I served 4 years active duty in the Air Force, then another 3 1/2 as a reservist. My active duty time was in a place called Nellis Air Force Base. Located just northeast of Las Vegas (yes I did lose some money). The mission of this base was to prepare pilots for war. This base is where all of our branches and allies come to train for air war. The idea behind this was stemmed from our pilots being killed in battle because of their lack of “experience” at war. So that produced this training where the pilots would actually come to this base and we would put on a full scale “war”. That in turn has benefited pilots by letting them survive in battle. So with that the same applies for these Marines. In the situation we have in Iraq, urban warfare training is critical to the survival of our men and women in the Marines. They need a chance to make a mistake without it costing their life. In doing so we hope that when the time comes they will have learned from these mistakes and come home to their families. This decision made by the mayor could actually get people killed. Could they find another place? I don’t know. I do know the process to change anything in the military such as this could take some time. Time we don’t need spending while our men and women are in harms way. This is a shameful decision by the mayor and I suggest he rethinks it completely. I also suggest you follow the lead of The Patriot and let the him know your angst about this terrible decision.
If you want to voice your concern you can contact the mayor:
Mayor Carty Finkbeiner
419.245.1001
mayor.toledo@toledo.oh.gov
I praise the fact that someone in this world told the Military no. They have not need to train on our streets or our cities.
The Airports are like a 3rd world Country and our cities do not need to become like it also..
The military is in many countries to keep strife OUT of our country and then this?? NO Way ! Keep them off of our highways also.
Thank you Carty Finbeiner.
Beverly,
Thank you for stopping by and putting in your opinion.
You understand this training is not in areas where people are living, right? My understanding is that they are training in abandoned buildings and remote areas. They are not policing the streets for training. They are practicing knocking down doors and gaining entry into buildings with a known hostile inside. That is my understanding of this training.
PS- Even if you hate this war, you would at least want the best training for our men and women going into harms way. Right?
I can’t understand why people are so against the military?
The Men and Women who are fighting for our country are doing so for many reasons.
Just like many Americans it is thier job, they get paid to be in the military! If we don’t like our jobs we can get another job, but regardless we still have to do what our boss tells us to do, and I am sure that we have men and women who are in the military, and do not want to be in Iraq.
I’m not saying War is great, it is not, and it’s not about winning or loosing that you are talking about here, it is about the safety of our troops, why would you send someone who has never handled a rattlesnake into a snake pit?
Our troops need to be trained properly for THIER OWN safety.
We are such a spoiled society that I think people forget about the one’s who fought for that freedom we so take for granted today.
I’m not saying we owe the government credit for this but we sure as HECK! owe it to those proud people who keep us and others safe!
Actually, I live in Toledo and the Marines are very visible in the Downtown area when they are training. They have a building that is abandon that they do most of their training in but they also are in a park located on the river and are on the streets outside of the building. The first time you see Marines running at you with M-16s it is startling, but this year the Marines made a point to notify the public ahead of time about their training. I saw a notice in the Toledo Blade and also on the local news. My feelings are such, if this training will help keep a Marine safe when he or she is off fighting I am all for it! The City could have posted signs or blocked off the area where the Marines were training if Carty was so concerned. I think he is just irritated because he was the last to know and he is an Egomaniac!
Kudos to the Mayor for denying the Marines. I am a six year Navy veteran, and I joined the military to defend the Constitution, not to prepare to enact martial law, if necessary.
We need more patriots like the mayor who stand up to an overbearing federal government. I understand the mayor is a democrat, and I am certain I would disagree politically on many number of issues with him, as I am a lifelong Conservative, but for this, I praise him.
Thanks for the phone number, as I will be calling to thank the patriotic mayor.
Jay- As usual you are correct. This is something we as Americans should think about. Maybe we could sacrifice our uneasiness for somebody else to be safe. You’re also right this isn’t about, is this war right or wrong. This is about if we are at war, we need to make sure we aren’t sending an untrained military to fight. Here is something else to think about. It will also save the lives of the civilians in Iraq as well. Can you imagine an 18yr old just out of high school with a loaded M-16 just about to enter a building not knowing what or who is inside. Can you then imagine when he goes running through that door how he will react at the first person he sees, even if that person is a young unarmed girl. The fact is training saves lives and Mayor Finkbeiner should be putting that first instead of his own feelings.
Janis-I won’t hold being from Ohio against you. Ha Ha. It is startling I’m sure if you are not accustom to it (seeing Marines run around). It is something to watch and be proud of. I hope the mayor and others follow your lead. The way you have admitted that it startled you yet could see the bigger picture, the safety of these men and women. Thank you for that, I know that the Marines always appreciate true patriots like you.
Layne- “not to prepare to enact martial law”. You might want to read your oath again. As long as it is defending the constitution, you will fight those “foreign and domestic”.
Yet this isn’t even the point. This training for urban warfare, to extricate terrorist from civilian homes. There is a difference between that and martial law. Sorry but you are way off on this. Yet I am happy to give the contact info so you too can voice your opinion.
I understand the oath. I understand the “foreign and domestic” portion of the oath. As far as I understand, the American people are not currently a domestic enemy.
Be careful of what the “purpose” of the training actually is. What exactly is a “terrorist”?
I will disagree with you on me being “way off” on this. On the surface, your argument may make sense, but when taken into a broader context, we need to remain vigilant against a cree towards acceptance and embracement of martial law.
Questioning the federal government does not give aid to the terrorists, it ensures this country maintains the freedoms and liberty we are given by God.
Layne- I see now where you are coming from on this. The question of who is a “terrorist” can be interesting. Yet, I am still optimistic in thinking that the problem you pose will not come to be. I’m not saying it can’t but I am hopeful it won’t.
I do come from an ultra-conservative and strict interprettionalist point of view with regars to the Constitution, and I am uneasy with the slow, but steady, creep of an unchecked federal government over our lives. Exercises like this, may be harmless, yet they plant the seed of a further pushing of the boundaries. It wasn’t long ago that the word “damn” was considered obscene, and those who spoke “like a sailor” (I have always disliked that comparison!) were looked upon as rude. Now it is a part of everyday life, and accepted.
We are flooded with images of violence, sex, and the like everyday, to te point here we become numb to it and accept it as the norm. Exercises like urban warfare training in a city, are psychologically the same. It will not take long until the public has grown used to it, and eventually, it (ie militaristic presence) becomes the norm. Sure, we will all be “safe”, but safe from what? Who decides what we are to ferful of,or wt behaviors, or what rights we should have.
All veterans and patriots need to keep a vigilant eye on what happens in the name of freedom, to make sure it is actually in keeping with the oath we swore to.
God Bless you, and be glad so many sacrificed heir lives so we can enjoy the freedoms we have today. Take care.
Great points Layne!
TO whom it may concern,
This is not the first time Carty has screwed up or done something to make himself look like an idiot. In the 1990’s Carty was faced with the issue of sound compliants at Toledo express airport so he suggested moving Toledo’s deph population to the areas arround the airport, because ” They cant hear it anyway”. In 2007 Carty got busted for leaving is dog in his car on two seperate occasions, he claimed he was only gone for a minute but the humane society had to investigate. Then later in the same year he got into hot water because he wanted to bring his dog to work with him and he had let the dog run basically free in the government center, this was investegated because any animal not spesifically nessessary for people to get around is banned from city offices, Carty got away with this because he claimed the dog helps him calm down, when in reality it was just Carty saying my dog is special.
This guy has “Screwed up Royal” over and over again. I live in the suburbs of Toledo but even I am feeling the reprecutions of Cartyism. I cant wait for people to vote him out.
Your mayor made the right decision to turn away the Marines. He may be a poor mayor, I don’t know. But in this case he did the right thing. The Marines can train in their own mock towns with their own mock citizens and conduct their own mock battles there. I’m not anti-military, in fact I just got out of the Corps six months ago. I am, however, opposed to U.S. troops patrolling their own. Practice often turns into reality.
If the Marines are willing to drive all the way from Grand Rapids to train they could’ve easily gone to a more practical setting a little further or just as far. They’ve got joint operations all over the Mid West, and all they needed to do was contact another service branch and ask them for assistance. Don’t pity them or turn this into an issue of patriotism.
But the real issue here is the familiarization with troops in our cities and the desensitization that occurs in the event of the declaration of martial law. This country is the proverbial frog being slowly boiled. Training in a metropolis also fosters the belief that everyone is a suspect (U.S. citizens, in this case) and must be manhandled in the interests of “security.” They need to train. But not on U.S. citizens.
Mike Adams, MI
I too live in Toledo and have seen the unbelievable actions of the current Mayor Carty. I have read many points here on this site. You have to put into context the events and Carty’s response. City Council gave permission for the Marines to do the Urban excercise a few months ago as they did in 2006. The memo didn’t get to Carty? The Toeldo Blade and News Cast let people know days in advance, it is hard to believe he just heard of it hours before. If he had handled it better and canceled in a timely manner it would have been different. It also cost I have read about 10,000 dollars to cancel this training excercise, of tax payers money. A few things to ponder, he has a history of trouble with Military. There were poeple who went to watch and support the training event that never accurred. Most of all-I have a son who is a Marine and I would want every effort of training him. given. Even if some would be incomvience for three days, they benieft from the protection the millitary provides. Proud Marine Parent
Some of you people worry me. I completely agree that we need to be vigilant of military action domestically however the attitude of some of you in this case is ignorant. The likelihood of our troops fighting a war in some far off field in Eastern Europe is a thing of the past. The current threat to our country lives hidden in urban areas using innocent populations as cover. By not having experience in this environment our troops are in danger and innocent urban dwellers are in danger. Consider the Korean War were we sent inexperienced troops into an unfamiliar environment, when things got hot they panicked and many Civilians were massacred. But the point is this. The military knows it needs to train in urban environments. If the citys expel them they will just spent more of my tax dollars and build overpriced billion dollar training venues to get the experience anyway; so why not use an existing blighted structure. Besides I like seeing these guys it gives me a chance to thank them they are our neighbors after all.
Even if you can’t see the value of an experienced military the 95% of Americans who aren’t busy building pipe bombs out of fertilizer in their basement do. So while I am actually paying my taxes you can go look for your little black helicopters. The funny thing is when you spend your life looking for black helicopters you start seeing them everywhere once you discover their invisible.
LOL…Excellent point Joe!
Joe, I’m going to take issue with a couple things you’ve mentioned. The first is that it takes billions of dollars to build a mock town- that’s a fallacy. At Lejeune they used the base itself as a mock town- how much space does a unit of 200 Marines need to train (Lejeune’s got a population of about 15-20,000)? Other supplementation to that point is that Marines typically attend trainining in the California desert before they deploy (including urban training). The premise for every command is to get as much training as possible, I realize that. But as I stated in my first comment the military has resources for training much more conducive to their goals than going to Toledo.
However I realize there’s a margin for error in every argument, both of ours included. I believe we’re susceptible to partial error in our conclusions. Incidentally, you’d be outraged to see what the military spends with our tax dollars- a billion dollar training facility would be their crowning achievement.
Most DO see the value of a trained military, so reducing the argument to a lack of appreciation for our military is overly simplistic, as is employing the old “black helicopter” cliche’. I didn’t pigeonhole you as a blissfully unaware sheep of the government- do us the service of not categorizing us as paranoid crackpots. Peace to you.
Mike
I find the actions of mayor Finkbiner outrages. As a former Marine I know the value of urban warfare training. It is a tedious type of combat. Moving from building to building and room to room. It is a very important part of a Marine’s training.
I think that there is a serious flaw in the area of communications in the city of Toledo, if you were not informed about this scheduled training.
These Marines need our support in the training that will keep them safe and at the same time root out the enemy that they face on an on going basis.
The children and the citizens of Toledo would have been better served in my opinion if they were notified ahead of time that this training was to take place and the importance of this training.
Shame on you.
Craig Waldron
abuck@buckeye-express.com
(419) 433-8481
Wow, seriously got me thinking with this blog. I do not live in Toledo, though not terribly far from it either. I was drawn into this story after reading about Berkeley and their mayor and city council’s decision to regard Marine recruiters as “Unwelcome and Uninvited Intruders”. It is an unfortunate comparison as the 2 incidents aren’t and shouldn’t be shoved into the same hole, completely different issues but it is what drew me into this story on the face of it, as a San Fran Bay area native and 10 year wife of an active duty Gunny in the Marines who I watched go thru his own time on the streets as a recruiter. That said it was entirely refreshing to read some of the supportive comments directed at the military especially from those who live in Toledo, a change of pace from the “atta boy”s I’ve read with regard to Berkeley.
I think this blog has served to engender a different point of view within myself though admittedly I do not agree with what the Mayor did in this case, I do see validity in some of the arguements against it or at least understand why some here would choose to side with him on this issue.
As for myself I think it was wrong of the Mayor to deny the Marines of use of the facilities once they had already given permission. I find it far fetched to believe especially given a lot of the information I’ve read out there that he in truth did not know about the training excercise ahead of time. While I appreciate the point of view of others on this blog, I must say that I believe that if we have the resources available near a unit why should said unit travel from Michigan to either coast for training. While not costing billions or even millions, the expense of transporting everyone to either location seems to me if not just as costly, more so, but what do I know /shrug. My husband (16+ years in the Marines, 2 combat tours) has also had the opportunity to be a part of I&I staff and regarding training of Marine reservists on weekend drills, valuable time would be wasted in travel that could better be used training at a closer location.
Also on another separate tack, I think that the young people of this nation could do worse than experience seeing first hand what military tactical excerises look like. I sometimes feel that they don’t appreciate what the military does and is all about. I know I was blissfully unaware until I met my Marine and feel awoken by the experience. Thanks for the opportunity to voice my thoughts regarding this issue.
Gunny’s wife
We have Posse Comitatus in the United States.
This means the U.S. Military is NOT to be used within
the United States against the American people – PERIOD!
Bush? Ya hear that? Bush has repealed it in the Patriot Acts!
Bush is a treasonous traitor!
Educate yourselves Americans!!! Your freedom is being taken away, disguised as “for your protection”.
The only danger we face is from the evil within and they are not Muslim.
WAKE UP! We are running out of time.
You have a great website, look at mine if you want
http://toledo-lawyer.blogspot.com
Gunnyswife,
I first want to thank you for what YOU do. To many times we forget about the wives of those serving. I have served for almost 8 yrs and know first hand the trials that couples go through in the military. So again I thank you for your service and your husbands as well.
You make an excellent point about the travel and expense to move to another location. An expense that can and will add up. I do also believe that the younger generation will benefit from seeing the military train. Not to mention the added benefit from possibly talking to one of them.
On the Berkeley issue. I find it fascinating how vogue is seems on some campuses to be anti-military or just plain un-patriotic. For a place that is supposed to be about choices they sure seem ready to lessen one. Those who are in charge there should be ashamed and should be asked to resign.
Thank you for taking the time to come on The Patriot and give us a different insight from your unique position.
Thanks for the props Mike the lawyer! (I can’t promise no lawyer jokes) hahahaha!
Mike,
You sound very level headed. You also are making some great points.
Look, the Marine reservists need to train and need to train in an area located near them for logistical reasons. The less time traveling the more time training.
You can argue to use training facilities elsewhere, but the more diverse and realistic a scenario the better the training. Training sets are nice for the basics but you need to shake it up to make the team leaders think. Even the communication assets become different in different environments. Diversity in training is important, every mission and environment is not the same.
This idea of getting people used to seeing military for the purpose of slowly becoming a military state… really lets think about this. We dont have enough troops to man all of Iraq and it is similar in size to Texas. This could never happen. The idea of military being in communities is not new. Think about Katrina, LA riots, Tornado areas and many many others always there for the people trying to save lives.
Do you really think this helped our budget problems throwing all the money away kicking the training out of the area., you really think this helped the Marines who probably just returned to their training center and sat around cleaning weapons and having classes and chalk board talks about tactics. If this description sounds like a good use of time you have issues. This was alot of wasted time. How do you think this helps recruiting and retention in the Military. Definitely doesnt help.
This isn’t the first time they’ve trained there and the Mayor is not new to the town. How could he not know. He doesn’t attend his own communities council meetings?
The sad moral is that we are having the same problems as what the Romans had at the end of their empirs. Like loss of morals and values as well as the Romans thought that they were too important to fight for themselves so they went to all mercenaries which will not hold out for long as you need to believe in what you are fighting for.
Semper Fi
Jason,
Semper Fi
Excellent point on the difficulty of becoming a military state. Made me think for sure.
You are right on the money about being like Rome. If we fall we will fall from the inside. One of the reasons that scenario isn’t that far fetched is because nobody seems interested in history. Without that interest we are bound to see some “reruns”.
Dear Carty,
I first met you on my parents front lawn while raking leaves, must have been in the late 60s. You were campaigning/running for city council. I was part of Mike Ferner’s mayoral campaign. I disagree with you on almost everything. Finally we agree!
I am a Vietnam Veteran, and I think the USA is being overthrown, and 9/11 was an inside job. The neocons are fascist who are trying to take over. Like Hitler they are using fear and state sponsored terrorism, and blatant propaganda with a consolidated media. The Marine war games are likely a tactic to get people used to martial law.
Here is my site, I am co-founder of Veterans for 9/11 Truth http://www.v911t.org/
By means of Truth, we shall wage Peace,
Alfons Olszewski
Alfons,
You have got to be kidding me! A training exercise now has turned into a plot to inflict fear and state sponsored terrorism?
I live 40 min from Toledo and this is the first time I had even heard of the Marines training there.
I go through my daily life and can tell you martial law has never entered my mind, I do not see the military roaming the streets, directing traffic, telling me they are going to shoot me for jaywalking!
I think you are way off base with this one…and of course your rebuttle will be that I must be blind to the fact, and they have already gotton to me….
Don’t think I want to waste my day looking over my shoulder, so I guess I’ll go to work!
Peace!
Alfons,
I believe you are really paranoid. Why? I don’t know. If you look at Jason’s response he makes a good argument as to the difficulty of this task. We would need a much larger military to come close to even having martial law just in the biggest United States cities.
Jay,
You are right on with his rebuttle. He will only use the fact that we don’t know the truth and only listen to the media.
The problem is that Toledo is a Democrat town that, as with many Democrat towns don’t like 3 things.
1) Republicans
2) The Military
3) Guns
This isn’t about some brave mayor standing-up to Bush and the black helicopters as the Illuminati wizards stir their cauldrons and singing their mystical chants.
This is about a moon-bat, catering to the cries of his fellow moon-bats and trying to stick it to the “fascists”.
I wonder why this many people, on both ends of the political spectrum spend so much time worrying about “our” military, and not worrying about the real enemies in the real war that we are in.
I am new to the state of Ohio and the city of Toledo. I have been reading all the posts and blogs on this site and many others and am left feeling incredulous. When I moved here 5 mo. ago I knew nothing about the Mayor of Toledo. In such a short time I have learned that a racist, “Good Ol’ Boy” regeim has been wreaking havoc on my new found fellow Toledoeans. I have a long line of family members that have served and fought very proudly for our country. I am not saying that Finkbeiner is an Anti American hypocritical idiot whose own grandiose views of himself cater to his propetual need to feed his ego……OH YEAH !! There is a saying if it walks like a duck…….. Just wanted the Mayor to know …….Way to go Captain Intelligence.
word definitions…………………… CARTY FINKBEINER…..DEFINITION………… TOLEDOS GLITTERING JEWEL OF COLLASSAL IGNORANCE.
Mayor Finkbeiner is correct in exacting his duty and authority for the citizens he serves, he represents them not the military. When the military performs these exercises or actions they are in clear violation of Posse Comitatus Act, the Mayor had the guts to uphold the Constitution of the State of Ohio because that is what he promises to do when sworn into office. The law is the law and everyone has to abide by it including the military, any of our political leaders from local all the way up to the white house take an oath to obey the law of the land which the U.S. Constitution and all State Constitutions. When they fail to do this it is a criminal act so we sure need alot more public servants like Carty Finkbeiner who take their oath seriously, the guy is a hero.
people of toledo…why is this man still in office? he is not for the people. get him out. i promise you that if he does not leave next term i will move to toledo, run and win against him. my letter to his office.
dear mayor
i was appalled recently at your proposition and subsequent action in trying to kick the marines out of your fair city of toledo. wow. thank you very much for actually doing something to preserve our freedom. i hope you can sense my sarcasm. as tasteless and crude as that was, it does not hold a candle to what you are doing about talk radio.
why just talk radio? why not television and internet too? sir, your hatred for talk radio DOES NOT mirror the people’s opinion. so why do you fight it so?
maybe you are too busy to have thought about this (or maybe too blinded by YOUR OWN HATRED) but the original fairness doctrine was put in place during a time when radio WAS the media. it would be utterly pointless in today’s world; a world where people who think for themselves and don’t rely on people like you to get their information. there are so many other avenues to get information to the masses. censure just one of them, and your real objective becomes clear: to destroy talk radio.
let’s be honest…you don’t want fairness. you want another channel to pitch your way of thinking. otherwise you would be targeting everyone. you may think that as mayor of toledo you are powerful enough to silence people, but you are not.
i strongly urge you to consider serving the people instead of yourself; people like me are tired of people like you pushing agendas that have nothing to do with public opinion.
i wish you a good day, as one public servant to another, and may God bless your city.
regards,
rob blackwell
OK. So the without the marines having access to close by/low cost training sites in a variety of environs, they will be less prepared for wherever they are deployed and/or their training will be more expensive. Both results are not good.
Given the geographic location of Toledo on crossroads of I-75 and I-80 it is a natural control point for defending the nation against our adversaries. IMO the city should be on good terms with all branches of the service.
I guess you all are now going to go out and buy guns to defend yourselves right ? ha ha ha, no you you won’t do that either. You are stupid sheep…..
Carty bowed to political correctness instead of doing the right thing.
Political correctness originated during Mao’s cultural revolution where if you said something that was not politically correct, you were taken out and shot. 100 million Chinese died and made Hitler holocoust look like a Sunday picnic. Political correctness is not what is needed. Doing the right thing, no matter how hard, is what’s needed.
Shame on you Carty.