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	<title>Comments on: Welfare: Helping so Much it Hurts</title>
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	<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/</link>
	<description>Common Sense</description>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8462</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8462</guid>
		<description>THIS MAY BE LONG BUT INTERESTING              I do not feel recieving help from our goverment is wrong at all I mean I have helped our goverment on many occations even gave my life for it? yet because we make a little to much money we have been turned down for example Christmas of 2002 I was robbed for 1,800 bucks (very Scary) I know I Know I shouldn&#039;t have had that kind of money on me but I took the money out of the bank to buy money orders for my monthly bills? where I banked charged 3 bucks a pop for money orders (I since stopped banking at Wells Fargo Opps did I say that? )  anyway I stopped to purchase gas at a convenient store the ones with gas pumps and I paid inside .. well in Las Vegas if you have a large bill you have to stick that bill in one of there slot machines and verify the large bill via the machine and recieve money at counter and all that going on around Christmas when all the &quot;Vultures&quot; or Insects are scope&#039;n everything out to see who they can rip off and Vegas is really bad well sure enough I was one of those unfortunate people a guy jumped in car at same time I did pointed a gun at me and held me up he only saw the 100 dollar bill but I couldn&#039;t take money from the other money which was wrapped around so neatly (Bummer!) but the real crook was the goverment that told me they couldn&#039;t help me so I could get back on my feet no one! not Welfare, General assistant programs, Church&#039;s, any organizations all because my income was to great? the bill collectors wow they are ruthless the phrase everything else can and most likely will stop but those bills, will sure to keep a come&#039;n and if you don&#039;t pay hey they don&#039;t care...  Ya know the Welfare Dept. made wait.... wasted 3 days of my time jumping threw there hoops and I asked (this is no joke) even the security guard about a emergency funds that they had for just our type of situation a family who didn&#039;t qualify for assistance but did not have one spare dime to our name and the answer was always yes... well after waiting in line being embarrassed because the workers basically yelled out your private and personal information no concern at all and when I finally got past 4-5 diffrent workers (seriously they do this to discourage you from apply&#039;n but I stuck to my guns! Hey we adopted our (at that time) 6 year old granddaughter and I wanted to make sure she had some type of Christmas? but here I was the very last worker the entire 3 days they all made it sound like I had a chance to at least get a few bucks (heck I was willing to pay it back even) but this worker said No! definitly not you make to much money??? I completely blew it I yelled out that this was something you might have told me when I told you 100 times these past 3 days about my income and if it was going to be a problem?  Then I asked to speak with the dept head and he actually got mad at me for being frustrated? and said his helpers were only following procedure Egads is it proceduyre to waste my time? make me feel like dirt? then decline my application when I had already told you folks my yearly income to even the security? hahaha Welfare is a joke ... had I came across the border and had a child ...things would have been diffrent they would have rolled out the red carpets! hey Im even a Vet and this is what type Of Goverment I fought for? the Vietnemese are better off where they are ... Frustrated yeah you can say that ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THIS MAY BE LONG BUT INTERESTING              I do not feel recieving help from our goverment is wrong at all I mean I have helped our goverment on many occations even gave my life for it? yet because we make a little to much money we have been turned down for example Christmas of 2002 I was robbed for 1,800 bucks (very Scary) I know I Know I shouldn&#8217;t have had that kind of money on me but I took the money out of the bank to buy money orders for my monthly bills? where I banked charged 3 bucks a pop for money orders (I since stopped banking at Wells Fargo Opps did I say that? )  anyway I stopped to purchase gas at a convenient store the ones with gas pumps and I paid inside .. well in Las Vegas if you have a large bill you have to stick that bill in one of there slot machines and verify the large bill via the machine and recieve money at counter and all that going on around Christmas when all the &#8220;Vultures&#8221; or Insects are scope&#8217;n everything out to see who they can rip off and Vegas is really bad well sure enough I was one of those unfortunate people a guy jumped in car at same time I did pointed a gun at me and held me up he only saw the 100 dollar bill but I couldn&#8217;t take money from the other money which was wrapped around so neatly (Bummer!) but the real crook was the goverment that told me they couldn&#8217;t help me so I could get back on my feet no one! not Welfare, General assistant programs, Church&#8217;s, any organizations all because my income was to great? the bill collectors wow they are ruthless the phrase everything else can and most likely will stop but those bills, will sure to keep a come&#8217;n and if you don&#8217;t pay hey they don&#8217;t care&#8230;  Ya know the Welfare Dept. made wait&#8230;. wasted 3 days of my time jumping threw there hoops and I asked (this is no joke) even the security guard about a emergency funds that they had for just our type of situation a family who didn&#8217;t qualify for assistance but did not have one spare dime to our name and the answer was always yes&#8230; well after waiting in line being embarrassed because the workers basically yelled out your private and personal information no concern at all and when I finally got past 4-5 diffrent workers (seriously they do this to discourage you from apply&#8217;n but I stuck to my guns! Hey we adopted our (at that time) 6 year old granddaughter and I wanted to make sure she had some type of Christmas? but here I was the very last worker the entire 3 days they all made it sound like I had a chance to at least get a few bucks (heck I was willing to pay it back even) but this worker said No! definitly not you make to much money??? I completely blew it I yelled out that this was something you might have told me when I told you 100 times these past 3 days about my income and if it was going to be a problem?  Then I asked to speak with the dept head and he actually got mad at me for being frustrated? and said his helpers were only following procedure Egads is it proceduyre to waste my time? make me feel like dirt? then decline my application when I had already told you folks my yearly income to even the security? hahaha Welfare is a joke &#8230; had I came across the border and had a child &#8230;things would have been diffrent they would have rolled out the red carpets! hey Im even a Vet and this is what type Of Goverment I fought for? the Vietnemese are better off where they are &#8230; Frustrated yeah you can say that &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mike hilge</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8452</link>
		<dc:creator>mike hilge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8452</guid>
		<description>hi are they still assisting un-wed mothers or out of work mothers with welfare asistance, medical,daycare even how much do they get receive on average it should be told to them  and limited to five children  its a help up not a hand out with checks on progress they should be required to get a job and they provide daycare 
its a free ride  in some cases the father still comes around and they also dont get married so that the mother can still receive benefits.    cause their stingy with money or have addictions this happens in all races black hispanic and white and asian.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi are they still assisting un-wed mothers or out of work mothers with welfare asistance, medical,daycare even how much do they get receive on average it should be told to them  and limited to five children  its a help up not a hand out with checks on progress they should be required to get a job and they provide daycare<br />
its a free ride  in some cases the father still comes around and they also dont get married so that the mother can still receive benefits.    cause their stingy with money or have addictions this happens in all races black hispanic and white and asian&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8426</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8426</guid>
		<description>Good point...we should!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point&#8230;we should!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8425</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8425</guid>
		<description>The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the largest transparently operated charity in the world, with an endowment of $38.7 billion.  In 2007, they distributed just over $2 billion in grants.  The Food Stamp program is a commitment 16.55 times the size of the Gates Foundation&#039;s current capacity.  It&#039;s huge.

The numbers look big in the national pot, but $13.68 million is no small number for a county of only 100,000 people.  Gas is on its way to $4.  Food is getting more expensive.  Our personal savings rate is in negative territory.  I just don&#039;t see how a local program based on voluntary contributions can be sustained.

You say it can be done.  As far as I know, nothing like it ever has.  In 1962, 28.5% of seniors lived in poverty.  Local communities were not moved to action, but our nation was.  Today, the poverty rate among seniors is in line with that of working-age adults.

We can&#039;t just shut off federal aid programs.  The consequences would be unacceptable.  We must first have a viable replacement.  That&#039;s a problem because no one wants to pay to duplicate our efforts.  Why spend $13.68 million on food that is already paid for?  It&#039;s a bit of a dilemma.

So why not focus on unmet needs?  If churches rush in to fill the voids left behind by government cut-backs, there will be no need to restore spending when there&#039;s more room in the budget.  Why haven&#039;t we seen more of that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is the largest transparently operated charity in the world, with an endowment of $38.7 billion.  In 2007, they distributed just over $2 billion in grants.  The Food Stamp program is a commitment 16.55 times the size of the Gates Foundation&#8217;s current capacity.  It&#8217;s huge.</p>
<p>The numbers look big in the national pot, but $13.68 million is no small number for a county of only 100,000 people.  Gas is on its way to $4.  Food is getting more expensive.  Our personal savings rate is in negative territory.  I just don&#8217;t see how a local program based on voluntary contributions can be sustained.</p>
<p>You say it can be done.  As far as I know, nothing like it ever has.  In 1962, 28.5% of seniors lived in poverty.  Local communities were not moved to action, but our nation was.  Today, the poverty rate among seniors is in line with that of working-age adults.</p>
<p>We can&#8217;t just shut off federal aid programs.  The consequences would be unacceptable.  We must first have a viable replacement.  That&#8217;s a problem because no one wants to pay to duplicate our efforts.  Why spend $13.68 million on food that is already paid for?  It&#8217;s a bit of a dilemma.</p>
<p>So why not focus on unmet needs?  If churches rush in to fill the voids left behind by government cut-backs, there will be no need to restore spending when there&#8217;s more room in the budget.  Why haven&#8217;t we seen more of that?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8424</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8424</guid>
		<description>Mike,

I&#039;m certain we could do it.  You must remember 3 things while crunching those numbers.  1.)  There are more than 115 congregations in Lenawee county 2.) They are already helping in welfare causes 3.) They could do exponentially more if the money that went to the state was left in their pockets!  Anyone can throw the numbers of need in one pot....and see that it is a big pot!  It needs to be broken down to the local level and it becomes easily managed.  Before Uncle Sugar came along...who took care of the poor and needy?  Answer:  The people in their local community.  And it did them good!  The moral responsibility should remain with them.  Thanks for listening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m certain we could do it.  You must remember 3 things while crunching those numbers.  1.)  There are more than 115 congregations in Lenawee county 2.) They are already helping in welfare causes 3.) They could do exponentially more if the money that went to the state was left in their pockets!  Anyone can throw the numbers of need in one pot&#8230;.and see that it is a big pot!  It needs to be broken down to the local level and it becomes easily managed.  Before Uncle Sugar came along&#8230;who took care of the poor and needy?  Answer:  The people in their local community.  And it did them good!  The moral responsibility should remain with them.  Thanks for listening.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8421</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8421</guid>
		<description>Technically, Medicaid and Medicare are both &quot;insurance&quot; in that they operate on the principle of shared risk.  Most working Americans contribute to these programs, and we all benefit from the safety net they provide.  In this way, all entitlement and welfare programs are both &quot;social protection&quot; and a form of  &quot;insurance&quot;.

Medicare generally requires that recipients work for a covered employer for at least 10 years.  Most people don&#039;t pay for Hospital Insurance (part A) because they paid Medicare taxes while they were working.  There is a monthly premium for Medical Insurance (Part B), about $1,200 per year.  The entire program is federally subsidized.

By contrast, Medicaid&#039;s function is not to act as health insurance per se, but rather to reimburse providers for expenses incurred by people who cannot afford insurance.  It&#039;s geared towards certain low-income families, the disabled, pregnant women and the elderly.  Coverage is assured, regardless of employment history or the ability to pay premiums.  In this way, it is a welfare program -- free insurance for the poor.

(By the way, the cost of Medicaid is split between the states and the federal government.  Federal contributions are based on state poverty levels.  Medicare is administered at the federal level.)

I read Russell&#039;s post on the well in Kenya a few months back.  What an outstanding achievement!  I&#039;d love to follow your progress as the project proceeds.  When do you start?  Can you post photos and comments?

I don&#039;t want to belittle your congregation&#039;s good work, but to put things in perspective, $10,000 is just 0.87% of Lenawee County&#039;s estimated monthly Food Stamp bill.  In order to meet the needs of your community, you (and other local churches) would need to duplicate the Kenya Well fundraising effort 115 times over, and you&#039;d need to do it each and every month, regardless of economic circumstances.

Can Lenawee County&#039;s churches raise $13.68 million per year for local food aid?  That would be amazing.  But then what about housing assistance?  And energy?  Child care?  Education and job training?  And to add another dimension to our discussion, can our nation&#039;s poorest communities achieve the same feat?  After all, there are places where poverty is substantially higher, and median income is substantially lower.

Churches can do fantastic things, like dig wells to provide clean water for a thousand orphans in Africa.  We need to acknowledge, though, that some challenges are simply beyond the reach of small clusters of even the most committed, well-intentioned people.  To conquer these challenges requires unity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically, Medicaid and Medicare are both &#8220;insurance&#8221; in that they operate on the principle of shared risk.  Most working Americans contribute to these programs, and we all benefit from the safety net they provide.  In this way, all entitlement and welfare programs are both &#8220;social protection&#8221; and a form of  &#8220;insurance&#8221;.</p>
<p>Medicare generally requires that recipients work for a covered employer for at least 10 years.  Most people don&#8217;t pay for Hospital Insurance (part A) because they paid Medicare taxes while they were working.  There is a monthly premium for Medical Insurance (Part B), about $1,200 per year.  The entire program is federally subsidized.</p>
<p>By contrast, Medicaid&#8217;s function is not to act as health insurance per se, but rather to reimburse providers for expenses incurred by people who cannot afford insurance.  It&#8217;s geared towards certain low-income families, the disabled, pregnant women and the elderly.  Coverage is assured, regardless of employment history or the ability to pay premiums.  In this way, it is a welfare program &#8212; free insurance for the poor.</p>
<p>(By the way, the cost of Medicaid is split between the states and the federal government.  Federal contributions are based on state poverty levels.  Medicare is administered at the federal level.)</p>
<p>I read Russell&#8217;s post on the well in Kenya a few months back.  What an outstanding achievement!  I&#8217;d love to follow your progress as the project proceeds.  When do you start?  Can you post photos and comments?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to belittle your congregation&#8217;s good work, but to put things in perspective, $10,000 is just 0.87% of Lenawee County&#8217;s estimated monthly Food Stamp bill.  In order to meet the needs of your community, you (and other local churches) would need to duplicate the Kenya Well fundraising effort 115 times over, and you&#8217;d need to do it each and every month, regardless of economic circumstances.</p>
<p>Can Lenawee County&#8217;s churches raise $13.68 million per year for local food aid?  That would be amazing.  But then what about housing assistance?  And energy?  Child care?  Education and job training?  And to add another dimension to our discussion, can our nation&#8217;s poorest communities achieve the same feat?  After all, there are places where poverty is substantially higher, and median income is substantially lower.</p>
<p>Churches can do fantastic things, like dig wells to provide clean water for a thousand orphans in Africa.  We need to acknowledge, though, that some challenges are simply beyond the reach of small clusters of even the most committed, well-intentioned people.  To conquer these challenges requires unity.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8420</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8420</guid>
		<description>Mike,

Here is a link to support the definition of Medicaid:

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/disabilityresearch/wi/medicaid.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>Here is a link to support the definition of Medicaid:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.socialsecurity.gov/disabilityresearch/wi/medicaid.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.socialsecurity.gov/disabilityresearch/wi/medicaid.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8419</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8419</guid>
		<description>Mike, Let me give you an example of what is possible.  Our small congregation did something very radical this Christmas.  We decided to forego some presents and take up a special contribution to drill a water well in Kenya, Africa for an orphanage.  We needed to raise $5,000....at Christmas....during Michigan&#039;s historical economic downturn....all the while maintaining our support for ongoing ministry needs.  This small group of people in one congregation raised over $10,000!!  This small church is going to drill the well themselves.  100% of the proceeds will go to the expense of drilling the well.  Those who will make the trip will raise their own travel funds.  Due to the generosity of these giving people, we will now be drilling two water wells!  More than 1,000 people will now have the opportunity to drink fresh, safe, clean water!   All the while we are supporting local ministry needs!  Imagine what could happen in the hundreds of churches in Lenawee County....especially if they had that tax money left in their pockets!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, Let me give you an example of what is possible.  Our small congregation did something very radical this Christmas.  We decided to forego some presents and take up a special contribution to drill a water well in Kenya, Africa for an orphanage.  We needed to raise $5,000&#8230;.at Christmas&#8230;.during Michigan&#8217;s historical economic downturn&#8230;.all the while maintaining our support for ongoing ministry needs.  This small group of people in one congregation raised over $10,000!!  This small church is going to drill the well themselves.  100% of the proceeds will go to the expense of drilling the well.  Those who will make the trip will raise their own travel funds.  Due to the generosity of these giving people, we will now be drilling two water wells!  More than 1,000 people will now have the opportunity to drink fresh, safe, clean water!   All the while we are supporting local ministry needs!  Imagine what could happen in the hundreds of churches in Lenawee County&#8230;.especially if they had that tax money left in their pockets!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8418</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8418</guid>
		<description>Mike, normally I am impressed with your accuracy in your comments.  In regards to Medicaid, funded by the Fed and administered by the state, is insurance.  You are simply wrong in this regard.

And, yes, I do think faith based organizations could handle the volume in Lenawee County.  I do think those numbers could come down if properly administered.  Again, I share your concern for the poor and needy.  We just differ in it&#039;s administration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, normally I am impressed with your accuracy in your comments.  In regards to Medicaid, funded by the Fed and administered by the state, is insurance.  You are simply wrong in this regard.</p>
<p>And, yes, I do think faith based organizations could handle the volume in Lenawee County.  I do think those numbers could come down if properly administered.  Again, I share your concern for the poor and needy.  We just differ in it&#8217;s administration.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/welfare-helping-so-much-it-hurts/#comment-8416</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thepatriot.wordpress.com/?p=148#comment-8416</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t get me wrong.  I&#039;m not doubting the generosity or commitment of religious communities.  What I&#039;m saying is that there are some problems that are well beyond the capacity of individuals and their local faith-based organizations.  We have decided we should alleviate hunger among the poor.  In Lenawee County, it would be impossible to raise $1.14 million each month, or even half that, for this purpose.  And even if it was possible, there are many other needs to be addressed.

It might not conform to certain political ideals, but some of the biggest strides we have made have been by way of our largest communities: the states and our nation.  No, it&#039;s not perfect.  But consider the alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong.  I&#8217;m not doubting the generosity or commitment of religious communities.  What I&#8217;m saying is that there are some problems that are well beyond the capacity of individuals and their local faith-based organizations.  We have decided we should alleviate hunger among the poor.  In Lenawee County, it would be impossible to raise $1.14 million each month, or even half that, for this purpose.  And even if it was possible, there are many other needs to be addressed.</p>
<p>It might not conform to certain political ideals, but some of the biggest strides we have made have been by way of our largest communities: the states and our nation.  No, it&#8217;s not perfect.  But consider the alternative.</p>
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